Curse

fenix · Mar 03, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

The ladder definitely needs to be reset, there's no reason NOT to. Changing the K Value for various aspects of GvG would also be beneficial, ie AT forfeits down to ~10, match wins up slightly.

Regina Buenaobra · Mar 03, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

I did read the thread. I'm sorry that I don't have any concrete answers for you at the moment. These issues have been persistent in the community, but there are a host of issues we need to discuss internally before we even decide to change things. We'd need to discuss whether we have the resources to change anything (considering we are in active development for the April content update, and that is a fairly heavy workload as it is for our two-person Live Team), what we can change (for example, there may be other options than adjusting the k values, options that you haven't considered, but which we have knowledge and information on), and how to change them. And that is provided we come to a consensus on whatever changes are on the table, and you all know that game decisions aren't made by just one, two, or three people. Decisions are made with input from a lot of people and all departments that a change like this would affect (for instance, these issues also affect Customer Support). There's little information that I can give you on the work we are doing except that we are examining the issues raised here and on other threads.

Billiard · Mar 03, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Thanks for reading and thanks for the feedback Regina. I know there is a lot going on for you all now - I was just trying to clarify that Jatt's point was not reporting specific guilds but more addressing a specific problem. I glad you all understand that and are working on it.

Lycan Nibbler · Mar 03, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Seems to be quite a few for a ladder reset - not sure Ive seen any strong reasons not to.. "History"? historically the ladder has been reset before, "skill> time?" time moves on, no skills in playing once every three months to stay in a place gained by previous owners.

I do wish/hope some of the top end guilds would use their smurfs to attempt some training or assistance of inexperienced players. I know GW is Srs Bsns, but when on a smurf you could still have fun and know you were helping one or two others? (Im speaking as a Gvg "scrub" with zero champ points ^.^)

Good work Ate by the way - knowing the trend probably follows for quite a way down too through all the sold "champ range guilds".

scruffy · Mar 03, 2009, 04:01 AM // 04:01

a ladder reset would rock, it would make all the dead guilds no longer take up space on the ladder

making ladder matches worth more rating would rock, it would make playing ladder more worth while

but i think were still missing something

imo there needs to be a reward for being high ranked on the ladder, otherwise people wont fight for the top spot and the ladder will become dull, like it is right now

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 03, 2009, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

a ladder reset would rock, it would make all the dead guilds no longer take up space on the ladder

making ladder matches worth more rating would rock, it would make playing ladder more worth while

but i think were still missing something

imo there needs to be a reward for being high ranked on the ladder, otherwise people wont fight for the top spot and the ladder will become dull, like it is right now

k value of +10 on ladder would be cool, on the other side you'll still have people complaining about smurfs

The reward for being high ranked is first page on the ladder, and rank giving you the better spot in ATs and MATs.

Game needs an influx of middle ranged guilds, that's what's lacking. Tweaking the game or ladder or current ladder mechanics to promote the middle level really needs to be encouraged more than anything.

ChopChop · Mar 03, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

The thing is, the ladder is *not* historical, old guilds are removed after 3 months, the ladder is however abuse able in that inactive guilds which got sold can stay on the ladder by just playing 1 game every 3 months.

Increasing the k-value for ladder play would attack this problem on 2 fronts, first the average rating would increase so many of the sold guilds would get passed in rating, and secondly when a sold guild plays (and likely loses) they will more quickly drop down in rating.

It would also have 2 other very significant benefits
As Billiard pointed out, very low ranked guilds would basically get a 'freebie' vs. very high ranked guilds in that it would cost them much less rating loss compared to possible gain from playing guilds of equal rating, thus, the system could match up guilds more quickly and lower ranked guilds wont lose as much.

Secondly it would solve the issue of ladder tanking as there would be a much higher intake of rating on the ladder compared to the possible tanking.

A ladder with a k-value of 5 is a joke, its so much a joke and a bad idea that I cannot even in words express the lack of thought and consideration it would take to implement it. Its not just stupid, its hurting the game.

There is no sane person who would not be for a increase back to a k-value of 25 for 'free play' as you so eloquently call it in your new rules, in fact the only people who haven't been able to realize this for 2 years now work for Arenanet.

The fact that you, Regina, just completely ignore the post and call for people to report what has been going on for over a year instead of making a statement on the issue, which I will not believe arena net is aware of (you do actually look to see what happens in the game right?) is what really worries me.

Ignore this thread or respond properly to this thread, but that was almost an insult.
(edit: this was posted before I read your 2. response, though I have still to actually read it)

Lycan Nibbler · Mar 03, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

I personally think even with the "k" changes, it would still takeup to a year for a guild to drop down the ladder significantly.

I ask this of the GvG experts here, would it seem a reasonable suggestion to have to play 1 match a month rather than the 3 months currently to stay on the ladder?

This to go along with the K change.

Considering many of the active guilds take part in AT's during a month, then this shouldnt have a negative impact I think?

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 03, 2009, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina

I did read the thread. I'm sorry that I don't have any concrete answers for you at the moment. These issues have been persistent in the community, but there are a host of issues we need to discuss internally before we even decide to change things. We'd need to discuss whether we have the resources to change anything (considering we are in active development for the April content update, and that is a fairly heavy workload as it is for our two-person Live Team), what we can change (for example, there may be other options than adjusting the k values, options that you haven't considered, but which we have knowledge and information on), and how to change them. And that is provided we come to a consensus on whatever changes are on the table, and you all know that game decisions aren't made by just one, two, or three people. Decisions are made with input from a lot of people and all departments that a change like this would affect (for instance, these issues also affect Customer Support). There's little information that I can give you on the work we are doing except that we are examining the issues raised here and on other threads.

Thanks for the response, it would be appreciated if you could keep us up to date with this, and please please don't neglect this rather serious problem. It does get worse by the day.

DreamWind · Mar 03, 2009, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi

^Maybe if you bold and capslock more of what you say people will listen more?

There are many people that enjoy the historical nature of the ladder that don't get on the forums and yell and rant about how the ladder should be reset. The ladder is fine... What is needed is a change in the match system and amount of rating per win. Increased K value sounds good but leave the ladder historical.

There is no historical value to the ladder anymore. If there was WM and Evil would still be 1 and 2.

Lycan Nibbler · Mar 03, 2009, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

There is no historical value to the ladder anymore. If there was WM and Evil would still be 1 and 2.

Exactly what I thought.. they had ladder resets for a reason and this seems just as good a reason.

you'll know when something is about to happen when you see DF being sold...

Ate of DK · Mar 03, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

ANET can't be that ignorant. But since they don't see the problem I will help.

For Regina, all screenshots taken from last nights observermode (Europe 3-3-09), I removed all player names but I left all guild tags in place. Gaile Gray says they can speed up investigation on problems when they have guildnames.

1. VR vs NRF
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw00511.jpg

2. NRF vs uNk
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw00611.jpg

3. NRF vs aa
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw00711.jpg

4. ?? vs EvIL
http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw00811.jpg

5. EvIL vs iQ
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw00911.jpg
See how a player of EvIL is in the winning team when his own guild resigns!
Common, you can't be that blind?

Do they really expect I buy GW2 when they watch how their baby dies?'
Sorry, I had no money to buy milk, so I let my baby die... (Read: We only got 2 people for GW1, we have priorities, moar storage is needed!)

Ate.

Jensy · Mar 03, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Exactly what I thought.. they had ladder resets for a reason and this seems just as good a reason.

you'll know when something is about to happen when you see DF being sold...

I lol'd. People wearing gold capes they didn't earn just make me go /point /laugh. Actually play in the mAT and earn it, ffs -_- I'd be too embarrassed for having a bought trim to even contemplate doing it. Ugh.

If it's really not historical at this point, I can't see why anyone other than lame gold cape buyers, and even more lame champion point sellers wouldn't want it reset.

imnotyourmother · Mar 03, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Who cares. We can all start over when GW2 comes out.

Just join the guild that is at the top of the ladder and quit your guild.

There your in the top guild WOOT

Killed u man · Mar 03, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Is there still people playing GvG?

Yeah, you got a point, it's a minor issue with Guild Wars, but there is far worse matters.

I don't think anyone, besides the 3-4 active guilds in GW remaining really cares anymore.
What will prevent teams from simply doing this after the reset? What can be done against the tanking? (Besides perm banning?)

I'm really sorry, this is in an issue with your playerbase, and not the GW System.

Massive Impulsa · Mar 03, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Well still some time until GW2 is released and i did actually pay for all the campaigns, so it would be nice to get something back (Since i dont play PvE at all:P)

Dr.Jones · Mar 05, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi

^Maybe if you bold and capslock more of what you say people will listen more?

There are many people that enjoy the historical nature of the ladder that don't get on the forums and yell and rant about how the ladder should be reset. The ladder is fine... What is needed is a change in the match system and amount of rating per win. Increased K value sounds good but leave the ladder historical.

i am sorry but no. the ladder needs a reset. when people are able to farm champ points http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10353978 is when the latter needs to be reset.

WhiteWasabi · Mar 05, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

i am sorry but no. the ladder needs a reset. when people are able to farm champ points http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10353978 is when the latter needs to be reset.

A ladder reset is a temporary solution. They will be farming champ points within 2 months easy.

Dr.Jones · Mar 05, 2009, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWasabi

A ladder reset is a temporary solution. They will be farming champ points within 2 months easy.

if thats the case then they need to make changes to the ladder and then rest it.

Sweet Mystery · Mar 05, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

LOL... the sad state of PvP where pure cheating crops up to infate a guilds rating....

I remember the good old days where ladder resets happened quite often. Indeed I thought they were done so that over a period of time a new top level of guilds could be formed and hold the top of said ladder. If now all that needs to happen is play now and again it's become a joke and ridicules the need for Guild vs Guild... the whole idea of the game in the first place....

Maybe should become Guild Maybe Wars